Matthew 18:15-17
Tuesday, July 1st, 2008Tuesday, July 01, 2008
Jesus taught:
“Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother.
But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that ‘by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’
And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church.
But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.
Matthew 18:15-17
Have a blessed Tuesday!
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July 1st, 2008 at 2:19 pm
This verse reminds me why there are some who claim Matthew was written to Jews from a Jewish perspective — ie the “Law”. Over the years I’ve had numerous disagreements with those who use one of Matthew’s “Jewish perspectives” to “prove” a point. One example is Matthew 5:17-18 where some Messianic Jews claim verses 5:17-18 “prove” Christians are still under the “Torah Law” because Jesus here specifically says “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets” and goes on to say not “one jot or one tittle will pass from the law until all is fulfilled”.
But back to today’s verse - Matthew 18:15-17. Whatever happened to Jesus teaching about turning the other cheek and forgiving your brother? Matthew 18:15-17 seems to teach the opposite of forgiving and turning the other cheek. That is, Matthew here specifically teaches we should eventually take our brother’s sin against us to the whole church and even eventually shun him, or her, as a heathen and one to be most despised.
Don’t misunderstand what I’m trying to get at here. I’m not claiming we shouldn’t talk to a brother about their sin against us. We are supposed to be keepers of the faith. However it seems to me that eventually forgiveness and turning the other cheek comes into play — and that seems to me to be something that would need to happen before shunning someone as a “heathen”.
Also, with the exception of a few fringe Christian organizations, I am unaware of any mainstream churches who actually try to implement this verse by insisting their membership shun and treat as heathen a brother who has sinned against another brother. Is that because the mainstream churches have ceased to have any moral authority, or is it because, like me, they understand/apply this verse differently in light of what Jesus teaches elsewhere?
I should point out that Matthew is probably my favorite Gospel book, if for no other reason than Matthew’s account of the Sermon on the Mount. By the way, I’ve been a member of VOTD since about later 90’s and look forward to each day’s verse. It is amazing how often a particular day’s verse will be just the thing I needed!
July 3rd, 2008 at 10:18 am
Gary,
Always good to dialog with VOTD family!
Just a thought to share with you - Jesus (as quoted by Matthew) is not encouraging the church (or individuals) to shun people who sin. We all sin and fall short the bible says (Romans 3:23) so there are plenty of people in the church who are in sin at any given time. Though there is sin these folks are typically growing,learning and gradually overcoming - which is facilitated by their willingness to repent. Matthew 18 is not about these folks but folks who refuse to repent or even entertain the notion that they are in sin regardless of what the bible says, regardless of what the church teaches.
In 1st Thessalonians 3 a similar passage is found - Paul teaches the church to withdraw from those who walk disorderly - understand that he’s referring to those who “walk” that way - in other words those who are persisting in their sins. Contrast that with those who have been overtaken by a sin or haven’t yet matured beyond a sin. The former are not open to changing, the latter will eventually (with the love and support of brothers and sisters) repent and mature.
Matthew 18 shows a progression. It can only be determined that a person wont repent by doing what the verse instructs. Once there is indication that the person is NOT interested in repenting then understand that they become a liability to the church - which is the other thing to consider.
If a church allows unrepentant sinners to stay involved and active it sends a message to everyone that there is no real need to repent from sin… for the sake of the folks growing and maturing the unrepentant sinner must be removed… the bible says “a little leaven leavens the whole lump” in other words a little bit of sin among believers can infect everyone.
Pastor George
July 3rd, 2008 at 5:22 pm
Pastor George,
Thanks for the reply!
I think where I read Matthew 18:15-17 differently is in the words “if your brother sins against you”. Sins against us personally are often of a different nature than “if your brother sins” (sins in a general way and not specifically against me) in the manner outlined in 1st Thessalonians 3.
A brother may sin against me - slander, as one example (this is no small sin, as it is violates the 9th commandment). Matthew says “go and tell him his fault between you and him”, which I’d do.
But if, after talking to that brother, he refuses to repent — then I feel I’d have, scripturally, two choices. The first would be to follow Matthew 18:15-17 and escalate the matter. The second would be to forgive and turn the other cheek.
Jesus says we are to love our neighbor. Jesus also defines our neighbor to include those who are our enemies and who persecute us. So my dilemma is do I forgive or not (and escalate the matter). In my mind, how can I forgive an enemy (my neighbor) but not a brother?
My thoughts seem to be confirmed in Matthew 18:21-22 which reads: “Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, ‘Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother when he sins against me? Up to seven times?’ Jesus answered, ‘I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times.’” In this verse we again find the “if your brother sins against you” thought, but here we are to forgive our brother endlessly.
So it appears, scripturally, there are two different options when, in Matthew 18, a “brother sins against me”. In one I escalate and in the other I forgive endlessly.
But in any case, the words “sins against you” are, for me, different from where it isn’t possible to personally forgive the sin. In either case, the sin should be brought before the sinner. My point is how that proceeds, if the brother refuses to repent, can be different (from Matthew 18:15-17) when the sin is against us personally and we choose to forgive and turn the other cheek.
July 4th, 2008 at 8:35 pm
This happens to me sometimes. When it does, I find that facing the person, try to resolve it. If the person turns away, even tho it’s painful, it need to be accepted. I did try.
July 5th, 2008 at 10:45 am
Gary,
Great response!
I guess the simple thing that I’m overlooking is that Matthew 18:15-17 doesn’t mention forgiving a brother who sins against you, its about confronting him that he would repent of that sin.
I’m kinda feeling that forgiving a brother is for our sake but what Jesus instructs us to do in our verse here is for that sinning brother’s sake and ultimately for the congregation’s sake.
The brother needs to repent, and if it becomes apparent that he wont, the congregation needs to “remove the leaven” as I pointed out in my last post. Meanwhile, regardless of how all that goes, we HAVE TO forgive that brother…
A thought: can we forgive someone, turn the other cheek and still confront them lovingly and gracefully about what they did/are doing?
July 5th, 2008 at 10:52 am
Joanne,
if I’m understanding your post correctly Romans 12:18 comes to mind: “If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men.”
Yes its difficult, yes it isnt always received, but yes as long as its possible we need to do it!
July 8th, 2008 at 1:58 pm
Pastor George,
You asked “A thought: can we forgive someone, turn the other cheek and still confront them lovingly and gracefully about what they did/are doing?”
That was part of what motivated my response to Matthew 18:15-17 in the first place. Again, I personally read the verse as when a brother sins against me (as opposed to sinning in general). Matthew 18:15-17 says if a brother sins against me I should “tell him his fault between you and him alone” - which I would do. However, if the brother refuses to repent then eventually he will become as a “heathen” and a “tax collector” to the entire church.
I, for myself, do not see treating someone as the Jews treated Gentiles (which is what Matthew is saying using the word “heathen”) and as a person to be most despised (which is how Jews looked upon tax collectors) as confronting a brother “lovingly and gracefully about what they did/are doing”. Rather, what I’d consider as confronting a brother lovingly and gracefully would be to approach the brother in private and tell him his sin, even explaining why, scripturally, it is a sin. If the brother refuses to repent, then it seems to me the most loving thing would be to forgive him and pray for him.
I understand when a brother sins in a general way (and not specifically against me) I should approach him and discuss his sin. If the brother refuses to repent then the matter should be handled just as Matthew outlines in these verses.
How did I get to this way of thinking? I became a Christian later in my life. Eventually the Holy Spirit convicted me of not loving my neighbor as I should - which includes forgiving them. I had a secular view of how to treat neighbors, some of whom might be my enemies and might be persecuting me - and that secular view was not in the same universe with forgiving them. In fact, I can still remember the moment I was convicted of this and thinking to myself “this is something (forgiving my enemies and persecutors) I really don’t think I can ever do”. In time the Holy Spirit empowered me to make this change and I am able to now forgive others of things I didn’t once think was possible.
Having gone through this experience, it occurs to me that if I should, and can, forgive my enemies and persecutors - why should I treat a brother differently? I’m thinking “what would Christ do in my place” - and don’t think it would be different (except His forgiveness would be perfect). Remember this is a sin against me personally. (And I am assuming it is a sin that isn’t so extreme that it would need to be treated as Matthew outlined.) I’m thinking “why can’t I forgive my brother” when I’ve been forgiven of so much? I’m thinking “love covers a multitude of sins” (1 Peter 4:8) and why can’t I cover my brother’s sin against me?
You also wrote “we HAVE TO forgive that brother”. YES! And in my mind and heart I would forgive that brother — but it would not feel like forgiveness (in my conscience) if what I did, concerning his sin against me, eventually caused that brother to be treated like a “heathen” and one to be most despised by the church.
A thought: Can it be Matthew 18:15-17 is specifically for those who haven’t yet reached the ability to forgive enemies and persecutors, and thus to avoid sin themselves (anger, resentment, etc.), they should follow Matthew’s advice in 18:15-17? Can it be that for those who can forgive enemies and persecutors that Matthew 18:21-22 would be applicable?
Another thought: Somewhere in my thinking I’ve come to believe it is possible for another’s sin against me (brother, or secular neighbor) to be “covered” (that is forgiven by God) if I can forgive it myself. That is not to say I can be like God and forgive sins. But in the matter of sins against me, that are of a personal nature and not “major sin”, it is possible for God to forgive that sin, without repentance on the part of the sinner, if I forgive it. Have I, somehow, wandered too far off base here?